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I am 37 years old and live in the uk. I have been suffering with terrible fatigue on and off for 3.5 years now. Due to illness I do not get out much in the sun. The past 4 months the fatigue has been terrible and non stop. Recently my wrists and knees are hurting me too. The GP has checked my bloodwork many times over the past 3 years and the only thing they have found is that sometimes my thyroid is a little low but they say not low enough to warrant medication. The most recent blood test they gave me said my thyroid levels were ok. I have just had the results of a private blood test for full thyroid and vitamins as I am getting nowhere with the NHS here. The private blood test shows my Reverse t3 ratio is a little low and my vitamin D levels are 55.6nmol/l (22.4ng/ml I believe?). I have been taking 5000iu Vitamin D the past few days but today I have doubled the dose to 10000iu. I will take 10000iu for 8 weeks and if my symptoms of fatigue and joint aches improve I will reduce dosage to 5000iu a day. Am I doing the right thing? I have found this website very good, great information, clear easy to navigate. Many thanks in advance.

Asked by  jazzj on August 25, 2017

Answers
  •  jazzj on

    See title

    Answered by  jazzj on
  •  IAW on

    In the “short run”, I think you are doing the right thing. If you have not already please read http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-and-other-vitamins-and-minerals/. It is very important.
    In 8 weeks, I would retest your levels again and this is why. You really need to see if your levels have increased and they should quite a bit. IF they do not, then we have to figure out why. You already mentioned “illness” besides the fatigue and now joint pain. So if it does not increase or increase enough it will be because you are not absorbing it or because of the illness. If it is cheaper than your “private blood work”, the Vitamin D Council ships in home test kits worldwide. After that we can do without levels if necessary but that one in 8 weeks is important.
    Did your private thyroid tests include any antibody tests? Is your Reverse T3 low but in range or below the range?
    Before we tackle anything thyroid, we really need to see how much you improve with Vitamin D alone. Depending on what illness(s) you have, I might even suggest more Vitamin D than the 10,000iu.
    Depending on any new answers now or your levels in 8 weeks AND how you feel, is then how to proceed from there. Please just don’t automatically cut back to 5000iu.

    Answered by  IAW on
  •  jazzj on

    Many thanks for your prompt reply. I have ordered the vitamins and minerals mentioned in the link you provided. I suffer with Migranous Vertigo (dizziness, swaying, headaches, earaches, ear pressure, head pressure…) the specialist told me it is similar to Meniere’s Disease. I would like to add that I have been taking Lansoprazole 30mg for acid reflux and indigestion for many years. I will be sure to look at getting my next test with you guys thank you. The Anitbody results were: Thyroglobulin Antibody <10 and Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 9. My Reverse T3 was 24ng/dl which I am told is ok. My reverse T3 ratio was *14.46 just below bottom of range so it is low.

    Answered by  jazzj on
  •  jazzj on

    I forgot to mention that I am a Male

    Answered by  jazzj on
  •  IAW on

    Since you mentioned you are a male, do you happen to weigh a lot more than average which is 150lbs or 68kg? When it comes to Vitamin D, the more you weigh, the more you have to take. If so, that could change things. Sorry I did not ask that originally.

    Answered by  IAW on
  •  jazzj on

    I weigh 259lb (18st 7.5lb). I have been taking 10,000iu vit d for a month now.
    The fatigue has improved most days but this usually happens. Weeks or months of fatigue then for a few weeks it improves before coming back again.

    Answered by  jazzj on
  •  IAW on

    Lansoprazole is a proton pump inhibitor.Proton pump inhibitors are known for causing magnesium deficiencies. This deficiency may or may not “show up” on a standard blood test. So keep this in mind. If you are not getting enough magnesium in your diet or supplements, then Vitamin D may cause symptoms.
    I would start taking 15,000 – 20,000iu. No, it will not hurt you. If you start any new symptoms, then come back and tell me right away.
    You said “fatigue” has improved, what about joint pain?
    I would take the 20,000iu for 8 weeks and then come back and tell me how your symptoms are and we will go from there.
    If we get you better, than I will assume right now with your weight, that a maintenance dosage of 5000iu will not be enough. The plan would probably be something like this. If all of your symptoms finally get better, than cut back to 15,000iu a day and wait 8 weeks. If you start to get worse again even if 8 weeks have not gone by, then go back to the 20,000iu a day and stay there forever. If you were to happen to lose some significant amount of weight, then try the same thing again. Cut back to 15K and see what happens.
    Probably if not significantly better in 8 weeks on 20K, then we need to probably revisit thyroid stuff.
    I know being sick is enough but do you have any unusual “stress” in your life?
    Something you may want to try I just heard about the other day.You may want to “split” that dosage and take it about 12 hours apart.
    I would not worry about any Vitamin D levels at the moment. Save your money!

    Answered by  IAW on
    •  jazzj on

      MANY THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. I WILL UP THE VITAMIN D TO 20,000IU TOMORROW. MAYBE SPLIT IS IN 2 DOSES. THANKS.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  jazzj on

      THE FATIGUE MOST DAYS HAS MUCH IMPROVED BUT I STILL GET BAD FATIGUE FOR A FEW DAYS AT A TIME.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      Sorry I did not know you were taking all those medications. Since I never know what Vitamin D “might improve”, I try and make people aware of serotonin syndrome if they are taking one of these medications like Cymbalta. At http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/serotonin-syndrome/symptoms-causes/dxc-20305673 they list symptoms and one of them is headaches.
      You also stated further down “THE HEAD PRESSURE AND DIZZINESS AT THE BACK OF MY HEAD HAS BEEN MORE SEVERE AND MORE FREQUENT LATELY”. Do you think the Vitamin D could be making things worse? You said fatigue is better, so that is a good sign.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  IAW on

      Did anyone ever check you for a B12 deficiency?

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  jazzj on

      Ive been on 30mg of lansoprazole for maybe 10 years or more. I suffer terrible acid reflux without it to the point of not being able to sleep and acid making me sick. 30mg of cymbalta on and off for years but since maybe 2012 ive been on 120mg cymbalta. I have been on 2.5mg olanzapine for maybe 6 years and same goes for epilim 1g (sodium valproate). Daily I take a decent muti-vitamin, 100mg co-enzyme Q10, feverfew 200mg, magnesium 500mg and now 20,000iu vitamin D. I take between 1 and 3 400mg ibuprofen (Advil) daily and sometimes take paracetemol too. I do my best to take a few days off the pain killers now and again as I have read about medication overuse headaches (rebound headaches). I have just been reading about someone who has suffered a different type of migraine to me without the dizziness that has finally found relief from his headaches and other symptoms now he is taking vitamin B2 400mg daily.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  jazzj on

      Many thanks for your reply IAW. I have done much research into my medication since I became dizzy over 3.5 years ago. I am addicted to my medication and the psychiatrist won’t let me come off medication. I have tried to slowly wean myself off some medication and I suffer worse physical effects for doing so. I am on less medication (less dosage) than I was 4 years ago. I was on the maximum dosage of cymbalta (120mg) for a while before I became dizzy. I have read the horror stories of cymbalta usage and withdrawl. I have read about people taking Lansoprazole and other proton pump inhibitors becoming deficient in B12. I have had 2 B12 blood tests recently. NHS test just said normal. Private blood test says my levels were 371 pmol/l. I have read that this is in the middle of normal range?

      • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  jazzj.
      • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  jazzj.
      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      Vitamin B-12 deficiency may cause the following symptoms:
      tingling in the feet and hands (burning, numbness)
      extreme fatigue
      weakness
      irritability or depression, anxiety
      breathlessness
      numbness
      poor balance
      memory trouble
      vision issues
      Many countries (not the USA) start the “low end” of the B12 range at 500-550pg/ml this equals 461pmol/l. You are below 461. Maybe you should try taking some B12.

      Answered by  IAW on
  •  bhoslekiran42 on

    Hi jazz.. I am also going through the same symptoms which you have. Could.you please reply wether talking magnesium supplements is helping in your headache pressure..

    Answered by  bhoslekiran42 on
    •  jazzj on

      I HAVE BEEN TAKING MAGNESIUM BISGLYCINATE 500MG A DAY FOR A FEW YEARS NOW. I CANNOT SAY THEY HAVE HELPED BUT IT IS HARD TO TELL. MY HEAD PRESSURE AND DIZZINESS IS SO UP AND DOWN IT IS HARD TO KEEP TRACK OF ANY IMPROVEMENTS OR ANYTHING THAT MAKE BE MAKING ME WORSE. OVERALL MY HEADACHES ARE LESS FREQUENT AS NOT IN EVERYDAY BUT THAT MAY BE DOWN TO TAKING IBUPROFEN AND PARACETEMOL 1 TO 3 TIMES A DAY. I STILL WAKE WITH A POUNDING HEADACHE/MIGRAINE 3 TO 6 DAYS A MONTH. I ALSO TAKE FEVERFEW, A DECENT MULTI VITAMIN, COENZYME Q10 ALONG WITH THE MAGNESIUM THAT I TAKE AT NIGHT.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  jazzj on

      THE HEAD PRESSURE AND DIZZINESS AT THE BACK OF MY HEAD HAS BEEN MORE SEVERE AND MORE FREQUENT LATELY. IT’S A NIGHTMARE TO BE HONEST. I’M SO FED UP. MY DIAGNISIS IS VESTIBULAR MIGRAINE BUT I STILL THINK THE CYMBALTA I HAVE BEEN ON FOR YEARS IS TO BLAME FOR ALL THIS. I AM WORSE WHEN TRYING TO CUT DOWN ON THE CYMBALTA SO I AM STILL TAKING IT. THAT SAID I AM SURE MY ANXIETY WOULD BE WORSE WITHOUT THE CYMBALTA. CATCH 22 SITUATION. VERY FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

      • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  jazzj.
      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  jazzj on

      I ALSO TAKE EPILIM CHRONO (SODIUM VALPROATE) AND OLANZAPINE FOR BI-POLAR DISORDER

      Answered by  jazzj on
  •  jazzj on

    CANT SUBSCRIBE TO THESE POSTS. CLICKING BELL AT BOTTOM RIGHT OF SCREEN BUT NOTHING HAPPENS?

    Answered by  jazzj on
  •  jazzj on

    Hi. I’ve been taking many vitamins for a year or more. Most recently 20,000iu of Vit D recommend buy you guys due to deficiency. I have recently started taking Vit B12 and Vit B2. When I first started taking Vit D my daily symptoms of fatigue slowly improved to a more bearable level some days. The past few weeks the fatigue is back and is worse than ever. My mood has been very low some days. and I have been feeling sick. I am also feeling anxious, my heart is pounding and my palms are sweaty. I am bi-polar and in the past have suffered with anxiety but I have been on medication for 7 years which has kept my symptoms at bay. It could be my mental health playing up after all these years but I am a little concerned that the vitamins could be making me feel unwell. Iv’e read that too much Vitamin D can lead to high calcium blood levels, a condition called hypercalcemia which can cause feelings of anxiety.
    My list of daily vitamins, minerals and herbs are:
    VITAMIN D3 20,000iu
    MULTIVITAMIN
    OMEGA 3 FISH OIL 1000MG
    VITAMIN B2 100MG
    MAGNESIUM BISGLYCINATE 500MG
    VITAMIN B12 1000UG
    CO-ENZYME Q10 100MG
    FEVERFEW 200MG

    Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      I am sorry you are feeling worse.
      Jazz the symptoms of Hypercalcemia are the followng:
      Feeling sick or being sick, poor appetite or loss of appetite, feeling very thirsty, passing urine often, constipation or diarrhea, abdominal pain, muscle weakness or pain, feeling confused, feeling tired and bone pain. In this instance a blood test for calcium would show “high levels”.
      HYPOcalcemia (not enough calcium) would cause the following symptoms of muscle spasms/twitches, numbness and tingling of your fingers and toes or around the mouth (pins and needles), depression, irritability,insomnia, very low levels may cause confusion, disorientation and heart irregularities.
      Since you feel worse on the 20,000iu, I would go back to the 10,000iu. You could also stop taking the Vitamin D for a week or two then resume at a lower amount or stop until things have settled down.
      Back on October 12th I said that I did not know you were taking all of the other medicines and how they might interact or change anything once you added the Vitamin D.
      Correct me if I am wrong but at this point we do not know what your Vitamin D level is at this point? (If for instance it has not changed much from the initial one, then there is a real problem.)
      Let’s revisit the thyroid. Did any of your last tests have a TSH level, Free T4 and Free T3 level? What were they?

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  jazzj on

      Thank you for you prompt rely. I have some symptoms from the Hypercalcemia list and some from the Hypocalcemia list. I know this might not be the cause for how I am feeling. I shall see if I can book a vitamin D blood test asap. I may decide to stop the vitamin D for a few week. Should I get a blood test while I’m still supplementing or is it ok to get tested if I have stopped? TSH 2.72miu/l, FREE THYROXINE 16.3pmol/l, FREE T3 5.33pmol/l

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      Do you happen to know what “time” (I assume “morning”) that blood work was taken for the thyroid tests?
      This might be a dumb question but you are taking D3 and not D2? I don’t think this is a factor but thought I better ask.
      As for “when to take the Vitamin D test”? For example if you took one today and the test results came back lower than 50ng/ml I would suspect you are not getting enough D because you really should be well over 50ng/ml by now. If in fact your level is “high” (even if it was over 100ng/ml), then I can assume you are getting enough and that this is not the issue. If you stopped taking the Vitamin D altogether tomorrow and in two weeks got your test, levels decrease by half every two weeks. So let’s say you did that and the level came back 22ng/ml. Now I do not know if your level was 44 and is now 22 or whether or not your level never really changed. This is the dilemma.
      I really do not want to see you keep taking it though, if it is making you feel bad. I will leave this up to you.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  IAW on

      Continued
      I googled and Web MD for Excessive sweating, Irregular heartbeat, Palpitations (fluttering in chest) and Pounding heart (pulse) came up with HYPOKALEMIA.
      Hypokalemia / Low Potassium Symptoms
      Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles, sometimes severe enough to cause inability to move arms or legs due to weakness (much like a paralysis)
      Tingling or numbness
      Nausea or vomiting
      Abdominal cramping, bloating
      Constipation
      Palpitations (feeling your heart beat irregularly)
      Passing large amounts of urine or feeling thirsty most of the time
      Fainting due to low blood pressure
      Abnormal psychological behavior: depression, psychosis, delirium, confusion, or hallucinations.
      IF this is it ANYTIME a mineral goes really low, it can be life threatening. I would stop the Vitamin D.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  jazzj on

      I think my blood test was around 11:30am and 12:30pm. I am taking D3 NOT D2. As I have to pay for a blood test I will just stop all my vitamins and see how I am for a few weeks. The most recent vitamins I started taking after I started the D3 was b12 and B2. Could it be the B12 making me anxious? Ive noticed I am clenching my jaw frquently the past few weeks. I have never done this in the past. I also have a metalic taste in my mouth and things dont taste right. drinking water doesnt help it. I have noticed I urinate very frequently since taking more vitamins. Always a few hours after taking the vitamins it starts. Very yellow in colour since starting the B2. I forgot to mention that my pulse and blood pressure has been higher since I feel more palpitations and anxiety like symptoms. My BP is usually 140/90 or under. Now it is as high as 153/96. Pulse at rest usually 80 but it’s been between 87 and 97 now.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      B2 causes yellow urine. What type of B12 are you taking? Everybody is different so what may affect you may not affect me. So it is hard to tell on the B12.
      Your TSH is a little high, your FT4 does not seem bad and FT3 might be a little low.
      I can understand why your BP is up when you do not feel well.
      Let me know what happens.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  jazzj on

      I’m taking B12 methylcobalamin tablets 1,000ug. I’ve not taken any vitamins for a few days now. The dizziness and head pressure is back today. The dizziness was much better overall for a week or more. Even during a cold I had which was very unusual. The dizziness and ear problems are usually much worse when I have a cold. The heart pounding palpitations and high BP Pulse is worst during the morning until mid afternoon and then it gets much more bearable by the evening thank god. Yes it makes sense that my BP would go up when feeling unwell but I have been unwell for nearly 4 years and not suffered any noticeable palpitations or physical anxiety until now. I’ve read that B2 can help migraines of many kinds. Maybe the B2 had finally kicked in and was helping my dizziness and head. I still get migraine headaches about 2 days a month on average now. Pounding headache all day. My milder daily head pains are kept at bay with ibuprofen and sometimes the addition of paracetemol. I take ibuprofen and co-codamol when i have a pounding headache and it takes most of the day to take the edge off.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  jazzj on

      B2 for migraine dosage is usually 400mg. I was taking 100mg a day as taking 400mg was making me urinate very frequently.

      Answered by  jazzj on
    •  IAW on

      Sometimes when I have people that seem to react badly to high amounts of Vitamin D, with no particular cause, I suggest they go back to smaller amounts and go at this a lot slower.
      So for instance if the 5000iu did not make things worse, go back to that. Then every so often add another 1000 or 2000iu and see what happens. If you are “OK” then wait a few weeks and then increase the amount again. If things get worse, then go back to the last amount you were taking and wait a longer period of time before trying again.

      Answered by  IAW on
  •  LearnaboutD3 on

    how many days after a supplement dose change should I wait before having my next blood test? I want to wait long enough to be certain it is reflected on the lab test.

    Answered by  LearnaboutD3 on
    •  IAW on

      LearnaboutD3 anytime there is a change you should wait 8 weeks to retest!

      Answered by  IAW on
  •  Redstar on

    Hi Jazz, just a few sites you may find helpful: http://www.cnelm.com/NutritionPractitioner/Issues/Issue_11_1/Articles/7%20Transdermal%20Mg%20revised2.pdf
    http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/campaigns/world_thyroid_register.html
    http://www.btf-thyroid.org/about/contact-details

    I have a diagnosis of vestibular migraine, low thyroid hormone, fibromyalgia and ulcerative colitis. For the migraine I see a Cranio Sacral Therapist, who is also a physio…my balance issues related to the migraine turned out to be related to extreme tightness in my jaw and base of the skull. The treatment is non invasive and helps me significantly. It’s important the therapist is a physical therapist also as they apply the CS technique alongside their other skills. I saw a different one who was way less effective for me as she had no physical therapy training. I was also prescribed Duloxetine/Cymbalta and although I was on a very low dose (20mg is the lowest per day btw) I am now, following a taper, at 11 beads per day. It’s not an easy drug to get off but it can be done! This is the group who guided me through the process: ‘Cymbalta Hurts Worse’. Take a look they have many strategies and factual information about the drug…if you need support they are also a good place to get some. You don’t have to decide to come off to join. Also to help me I lost some weight. I’ve been debilitated from an accident for 28 years and I know how hard it is to exercise, especially with balance and pain issues, but the fact is you need to move to help the body cope and function. I had Vestibular Retraining to help my ears work with my eyes again (it’s available on the NHS…usually through a Falls and Syncooe service, ENT dept or specialist physio it’s important you get a specialist). It also sounds like you have a lot of drugs running around your system…that won’t help either. When I was in a similar situation I sat down and did a stocktake if what I was taking, why I was taking it, what the benefits seemed to be and what the cons were. In most cases the pros were not nearly as big as the cons…so I devised a slow, steady way to remove them one by one and at the same time introduce more natural ways of supporting my body. It’s taken a few years and Ive had a few additional problems arise here and there but I’m here and I’m functioning some days better than I have for years. Whatever you decide remember, although it feels like it at times, you are actually never really alone as long as you can reach out to others…like you have here. I wish you all good things Jazz you’ve got this!

    Answered by  Redstar on
    •  jazzj on

      Hi Redstar. Many thanks for your support, encouragement and the helpful information. I am sorry to hear of the problems you have suffered. I am wiped out with burning fatigue and dizziness right now mate. I will Looks at the information and links you provided and get back to you when I come back to life. Cheers buddy. Best wishes.

      Answered by  jazzj on

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