Hi I have insomnia and I have had several sleep studies, which indicated mild sleep apnoea. This has now been corrected, however my insomnia is still bad, I had more tests done and I am Vitamin D deficient at 20 ng/ml (test was taken last September). Any way I have a problem taking vitamin D supplements, my sleep and pain definitely improve, however as I increase to one tablet 1000iu (started with 1/4 vitamin d3 K2 sublingual) I become more fatigue during the day, note I take the tablet sublingual early morning with magnesium spray on my legs. My blood pressure seems lower 89/48, I obviously need vitamin d3 for my sleep but how do I continue with it as it lowers my BP too much resulting in fatigue. Note I have tested this a number of times. Please help!!

Asked by  Mickey on January 19, 2015

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  • Mickey
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     Mickey on

    See title

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    Let’s start with by any chance do you take blood pressure medicine or any other medicines? That is a pretty low blood pressure.

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    No I do not take any blood medication or any medicines at all, I m a 50 year old male. My blood pressure is normally around 103-106/65-75, although I feel fatigue now with resting BP at 100/65, I have checked by BGL that was 4.6 mmol (normal fasting). I seem to get a ceiling when taking vitamin d3, I know I need it as my sleep is much better and legs pain and fibromyalgia disappear, but feel I need more to improve my sleep. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. I think I will reduce the magnesium tomorrow morning.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    I am curious why you have to “check your glucose levels”?
    Beyond that just to repeat back it seems anything over 1000 iu causes you fatigue/low blood pressure.
    Usually too much magnesium is not a problem, most people do not get enough.
    What is the name of the Vitamin D you take and does it list any other ingredients? Could you be allergic to that one or any ingredients in it? Do you take a multi vitamin? One cause of low blood pressure is low B12 and/or low folate. Both of these could be tested. Also since you mentioned the word “fibromyalgia” maybe you have low cortisol levels or low thyroid levels. Have you ever been tested? (I might also have other advice in this area.)
    It almost sounds to me that your “body wants/needs the Vitamin D and you see improvements but it then “runs out of something like a vitamin or cannot produce enough of another hormone that it needs to go with the Vitamin D.
    Can you go out in the summer sun and not have a problem? Then maybe the answer is a sunlamp.
    Let me know what you think.

    Answered by  IAW on

    • Mickey
      Participant
       Mickey on

      Thanks you for kind reply, I checked my BGL to rule out a cause of the fatigue, the fatigue seems either BP related or electrolytes, may be its my calcium levels. I dabbled with methylation methyl & hydroxyl b12 and folate, extremely sensitive to folates though but I stopped them 5 weeks ago as sleep deteriorated. I note today I have been aching around the kidney area, first time for a while. I take TWINLABS vitamin D3 dots with k2 1000iu sublingually, initially the first 5 days at 1/4 tablet, then 3 days 1/2 tablet and the last two days 1 tablet. I may have to go back on B12, its just the fact I get fatigue every time I get to 1000iu of vitamin d3 or there abouts. I tried solgar d3 orally again got the same result but I also has stomach/nausea issues as well, so I don’t think allergies are at play. I had an adrenal test profile done and I had high cortisol all day and high in the morning which lab said could be due to pain, insomnia etc which links in with fibromyalgia. The fibromyalgia is definitely linked with my sleep, deep sleep, if I sleep well, no pain. I take a multivitamin every few days or so. May be I just have to go low and slow with vitamin D3. I seem ok in the sun, but I did not that when I added magnesium spray along with my morning vitamin d3 my sleep slightly improved that night. Yes I agree that my body wants vitamin D, its just the fatigue, its bad and didn’t have it before, its like my body can’t breath, its not tiredness.

      Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    So at first I got the impression that you had been using the “magnesium spray” for quite awhile. So I was not “pushing” the magnesium aspect of this. That may be the issue, you are not getting enough. Now have you ever taken any “oral” magnesium? You probably need somewhere between 500 – 700 mg a day and I do not know how that equates with “spray”. (Do not take Oxide.) Maybe also “low and slow” would help. Most things I have read is that magnesium can possible lower blood pressure but maybe the opposite will happen for you. Try more magnesium first and see what happens????

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Ok, on waking no fatigue but did have several wakes overnight, well I stopped magnesium this morning and took vitamin D3 tablet sublingually 1000iu. No fatigue at the moment, but I need to see how I sleep tonight. I know that magnesium is very important for vitamin d3 as it is needed to activate it. With d3 activated my sleep, night time legs cramps/ movements and fibromyalgia would improve. The magnesium spray, 10 sprays provides 150 mg, yesterday morning (same time as taking vit d) I did 3 sprays on my legs, I decided to use spray rather than oral tablets because I very sensitive to supplements in general but also I did have similar fatigue with just magnesium by itself. However, initially the vitamin D3 on it’s own works for my sleep but then my insomnia returns. BTW I also took some zinc yesterday and in fact today.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    So I really think the problem is magnesium deficiency and I think that the deficiency is so great that when you try more Vitamin D it causes the issues.
    So here is another thought. Have you ever seen or tried http://www.puritan.com/natural-vitality-brand-0906/natural-calm-original-079830?scid=3763&cmp=gpl-_-079830&CAWELAID=1782917961&gclid=CL20g72Bo8MCFQET7Aod6VUAiA (Natural Calm) Maybe you should try that right before going to bed. (You can try the spray but it is not giving you enough.) It would be a bigger amount of magnesium and maybe you could “sleep off” any tiredness it may cause. Also you may want to consider doing this with the Vitamin D, take it before bed. It seems counter intuitive. I have a friend that once told me “she took her Vitamin D at night and could sleep much better”. Another friend was using the “Calm” right before bed and it was helping her to sleep. (I warned her though that when she became replete in magnesium the affect might wear off. If you work maybe you even want to wait for the weekend to perform the experiment in case you sleep “too well”!!!

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Thank you for your very informative reply, there are so many views on when to take vitamin D, some say early morning, some say before bed. I’ve err on the side of caution and decided to take in the early morning as I didn’t want to risk my sleep any more. I will give a go and see if that improves things, will take 1/2hr before bed at the weekend. I do worry about magnesium as I am very sensitive to it as my blood pressure lowers with it, I’ve not come across that type or brand, I will order some , thank you for the link. Ok , so in summation, you think I need more magnesium, preferably at bedtime along with vitamin d3 and build the d3 to 5000iu a day?, side effect permitting. I note that for maximum sleep you need to get to 60-80 ng/ml less or greater than, sleep deteriorates according Dr Gominak website.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    So I am not a physician just a member of the VDC trying to help.
    So if you still think that the magnesium might be an issue (lowers your blood pressure too much) then stick to the spray but do it at night before bed. Then see how you feel during the day. Maybe do that before trying the D again and see what happens! If that goes OK (maybe for several nights) then add a little D at night. See what happens! Our bodies were meant to repair themselves at night while we sleep. Hope this works but cannot guarantee. Please let me know either way!
    I realize he does promote 60-80 ng/ml for sleep and actually says over 80 and it will get worse. But just maybe a lower level will work for you. Honestly my husband has had levels over 80ng/ml and nothing stops him from sleeping! Me, I can sympathize with the “not” sleeping! Got more questions just ask!

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Ok I understand, I will have a go, thank you again for your advice, it’s very much appreciated!

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Hi, I have now got to 1500iu a day, however y sleep last night was the worst, frequent awakenings, fibromyagia worst, legs ache. Admittedly I have not increased magnesium, I note that Dr Gominak’s Lectures/sleep video indicates that 1 out of 100 of her patients have a problem going above 1000 to 2000 iu a day, she mentions that D goes too high. I wonder if they are patients that already have fairly high Vit D levels or they are some how creating more active form of D or are sensitive to D. Who knows!!. I am exhausted today. Any advice would be welcome.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    So here is some more information.
    The Vitamin D Council once said that feeling unwell when taking Vitamin D (or getting lots of sun) means that you’re probably deficient in magnesium”.
    …Vitamin D has no known side effects. If one experiences any of the following symptoms due to supplementing with vitamin D – or with sun exposure – a magnesium deficiency is most likely the reason why:
    * irritability or anxiety
    * nausea
    * headaches
    * insomnia
    * fatigue
    * muscle cramps/twitching
    * weakness
    * constipation

    The below are symptoms of hypercalcemia!
    The symptoms of hypercalcemia include:
    ◾feeling sick or being sick
    ◾poor appetite or loss of appetite
    ◾feeling very thirsty
    ◾passing urine often
    ◾constipation or diarrhea
    ◾abdominal pain
    ◾muscle weakness or pain
    ◾feeling confused
    ◾feeling tired
    You absolutely have to read the following:
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/further-topics/vitamin-d-hypersensitivity/
    There is also a correlation between low blood pressure and d deficiency.
    New study finds vitamin D deficiency may be a risk factor for orthostatic hypotension
    Posted on May 21, 2014 by Vitamin D Council
    You might have a Granulomatous disease?

    Answered by  IAW on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    I am also going to go “out on a limb” here. If you have a Granulomatous disease that is causing hypercalcemia you may have the TICK borne illness Bartonella and along with that you might have Lyme.

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Thank you for your kind advice. Hi, Slept better last night, although I have a headache and feel spacey this morning. I noted that I had taken a small amount methyl b12 sublingual the day before yesterday (early morning), that may have aggravated / compounded the poor sleep I had. Yesterday I upped my dose of magnesium, felt better, was worried that the fatigue might return/ low blood pressure but it didn’t. I note that I prefer the subligual tablets rather than the oral (seem to get upset stomach). I re-examined the list of side effects that you posted and they seem to equate low magnesium. If this is the problem, I would amazed at how low a dose of Vit d3 can cause me to run low on magnesium, however it is interesting your link and comment on Ganulomatous, as my brother who has now been cured of cancer, is under investigation for sarcoid nodules in the lungs (they are not cancer). I have ordered a home test kit for D25OH vit d, just to see what my levels are. Could you give me the link for Vit D deficiency and low BP, thank your informative posts.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    Sorry I meant to include the link http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitamin-d-news/new-study-finds-vitamin-d-deficiency-may-be-a-risk-factor-for-orthostatic-hypotension/.
    I hope that the Vitamin D plus magnesium are all you need and that you will be well soon. Keep us informed.

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Thanks IAW.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Help! Last Friday I got my daily dose up to 2000iu ( 2 x twinlab dots 1000iu + vit k) but I felt very Depressed in the afternoon and evening I realised that the day before even at the previous lower dose of 1500 iu I felt low mood in late afternoon evening. I’ve had to stop supplementation, the depression has now subsided (I had a smiliar episode a few years ago when taking vit D3), so I am upset as the vitamin D3 had reduced my fibromyalgia pain and my sleep was better. Fortunately I had done a vitamin D test last week on the Tuesday, results came back as 32ng/ml (my original level was 21 ng/ml), so I have not overdosed or at toxic levels. Have I run out of co factors, vitamin D has definitely affected my brain chemistry, how do I get round this, my vit D levels are still low.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Mickey.
    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    So at this point did you work at taking more magnesium? How much? How is your fatigue doing? Sounds like pain and sleep were better. (Not sure if you can rule out hypercalcemia. You would need to get your calcium levels checked. Even a very small dose of Vitamin D could cause it, not just a large overdose!)
    So main problem is it appears to have caused depression. Do you take any omega three fatty acids? “These essential minerals reduce inflammation and play a critical role in brain function, especially memory and mood.” So maybe it could be another vitamin or mineral or “amino acid” holding you back from progressing. I suppose it could also be the lack of another hormone of which there are many.

    Answered by  IAW on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Thank you for your reply, I take 3 x sprays of magnesium a day (15mg per spray). I had a blood test last year before starting vit d supplemention and my calcium was normal although I was deficient in vitamin D, but this may have gone up since starting vit d. I take Thorne multi vitmin 2 x a week but no EFA’s, althought I do eat a lot of nuts and seeds. On the morning I increased the dose to 2000 iu felt light headed then 2 hours later moderate fatigue, then later low mood then depression, quite amazing almost as if I had run out of serotonin, may be the vit do was coverting it into something else. I guess I could cut back and build up slower or perhaps take the multivitamin , B12, Magnesium with the dose of vit d at 2000iu at the same time. The severity of depression really took me by surprise!!

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Mickey.
    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    Again you need “somewhere between 500 – 700 mg a day of magnesium”! The following is a good article and also reminded me of something. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201106/magnesium-and-the-brain-the-original-chill-pill. Soaking in a bathtub with Epsom salts may be another way to get magnesium into your system. (If you still have high cortisol levels, you are probably using up tons of magnesium and there is nothing left to do anything else.
    None of us know what the “priorities are of vitamin d” if you are deficient. Yes, I also thought about “running out of serotonin” and therefore was trying to look for things that might help. Hence the Omega threes or magnesium!

    Answered by  IAW on

    • Mickey
      Participant
       Mickey on

      Thank you! I have upped my magnesium, its definitely running out of serotonin, I think I have to increase my dosage slowly over a few months, not what I want though and look at the conversion of serotonin to dopamine process and see if I can supplement something.

      Answered by  Mickey on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Hi Again,

    I wonder if you be kind enough to advise, I have cloudy urine, this seem to have started when I started taking vitamin d3. My current dosage is 3000iu, with a 100mcg of vitamin K2, what does this mean? Also I am still feeling somewhat sedated after the morning dose of vitamin d3, why would that be?

    Thanks again.

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • Mickey
    Participant
     Mickey on

    Frrr

    Answered by  Mickey on

  • IAW
    Participant
     IAW on

    Sorry I don’t know!

    Answered by  IAW on

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