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I've began to supplement Vitamin d3&k2 combo. D3:3000IE / K2: 45ug. I felt great the first month, my sleep decreased like 2 hours in total by first day and i still felt energized, it further decreased 2 hours after a month and i felt tired, got insomnia for a while so i started use even more magnesium. 1600mg of magnesium citrate&lysin chelate= 486mg elemental, wasn't enough. So i used chloride magnesium and that saved my insomnia so i can fall asleep, that gives probably atleast 2000 elemental with my rub, an ounce gives 3262mg elemental magnesium!. I still have problems sleeping a whole night. I go to bed at 9 and waking up at 3 and are tired, thirsty and having a headache usually. I thought to myself that i got hypercalcemia due to my symptoms. I did use alot of calcium as supplement because i couldn't fall asleep without it either, so i guess my whole mineral supplies are unbalanced to say the least. I did however had no issues with supplements before i introduced vitamin d3 to my diet. Am i sensitive to the type of vitamin d3 in my supplement? Are there different vitamin d3 sources? Should i stick to a lower dose?

Asked by  Anton Mullis on December 10, 2015

Answers
  •  Anton Mullis on

    See title

    Answered by  Anton Mullis on
  •  IAW on

    I am not a doctor or scientist. I really think you have hypercalcemia. You have most of the symptoms. Sometimes too much Vitamin D can cause it and sometimes there is an underlying issue causing it and the Vitamin D then makes it worse The 3000iu is not a huge amount but even that could cause a problem under these circumstances.
    So you should absolutely STOP taking all Vitamin D for now and I would say cut way back on the minerals maybe even stop them for awhile. (I don’t know what mineral overload will do?) I would wait until everything goes back to normal, like it was before taking Vitamin D.
    Can I assume that you never had your Vitamin D levels measured? Can I assume you do not live somewhere sunny and may get enough D that way and you really did not need to take any? Did you have any medical conditions before you started taking the D?
    After that you should probably seek medical attention if you can and tell them what happened. If they are a good doctor, I would assume they would look for an underlying issue that caused the hypercalcemia. I suppose there is a chance that you simply do not need much Vitamin D.

    Answered by  IAW on
  •  Anton Mullis on

    Okey, i didn’t take any today and will wait it out for a time. I never had my D-levels tested but i suspected there was something wrong with my body, had ibs and it practicly went away with d-vitamin or magnesium i’m not sure. Also i felt happier than before, i used to be depressed from time to time. Also i live in Sweden, and we barely have any sun here in winter. This summer was really bad and barely gave any good amounts of sunny days. Medical condition would be IBS before i took D-vitamin & higher doses of magnesium. Nothing else. I’m thinking about waiting abit before going to the doctor, because i’ve been on a hair mineral analysis. I will provide my results withing 2 weeks. So even the therapist will ensure i get the correct doses of supplements to help me reach mineral balance. And after few months i will get back to them and they analyze my status. I know they only get to know my minerals and this D-vitamin will may show an correlation between it’s synergies and antagonists so they can maybe see if i need supplement or not. If my symptoms doesn’t go away i will visit the doctor for sure.

    Answered by  Anton Mullis on
    •  Grayson on

      This may be late in the conversation, but too much Magnesium is going to make any diarrhea increase as it is a laxative. Perhaps to aid sleep, things like 5-HTP, Lemon Balm, L-Threonine would be less likely to flare IBS.

      Answered by  Grayson on
  •  IAW on

    I do not know if you will come back to read this. If you figure this all out at some point, I would appreciate if you came back and told me what happened. For example if you use a lower amount of Vitamin D and are fine and your IBS is still better, let me know. It sounds like the odds are you were deficient. The next question is though, maybe you personally do not need much Vitamin D or taking too much or any will cause you to have hypercalcemia.

    Answered by  IAW on
  •  karinahansen198538969500 on

    Oh my do I feel your pain. I live in Denmark, and the sun is just.. meh. Please go to your doctor and have D and PTH taken. If you have hypercalcemia, you could end up having kidneystones.

    Answered by  karinahansen198538969500 on
  •  malsatti76968700 on

    there has been a lot of chatter about NOT taking vitamin d3 without vitamin K2 as they work in concert together ! is this true

    Answered by  malsatti76968700 on
  •  IAW on

    There was a study done in rats that showed Vitamin K “directs” calcium to bones and away from soft tissue where you do not want it to be. It is Vitamin D that helps absorbs calcium from your intestines. So if you do not take or “get” enough D, then you will not absorb needed calcium for your bones. If you do not have enough Vitamin K in your “diet”, then the calcium may not get directed to where it needs to be. So if you eat a well balanced diet, you will be fine.For the “chatter” to say that, is not really fair.http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-and-other-vitamins-and-minerals/

    Answered by  IAW on
  •  karenjaninaz on

    My Vit D level around 6!weeks ago and tested by my doctor’s lab was 47.1a-after 1 month of D3 10,00 units/day. My goal is ~70nm/ml because I have reactive airway disease and higher levels were reportedly helpful. I took 10,000 the next month, self tested last week and my level is 38. I don’t get it. I also do Vit D lamp. Could the lamp interfere with oral supplement?

    Answered by  karenjaninaz on
  •  IAW on

    Karenj I would have to guess and say if you have medical issues that you may be using the Vitamin D up faster than you can take it. The other thing is if your weight is over 150lbs, then you will probably need more.
    In Denmark Vitamin D is measured as nmol/l and we recommend maintaining healthy levels of at least 50ng/ml which translates to 125nmol/l for you. So 70nmol/l is not your goal, 125nmol/l is.
    Try taking 15,000iu a day. Do you have light skin or darker skin this may have an affect on how much you are getting from the sunlamp?
    Your level must have been extremely low to begin with before supplementing!

    Answered by  IAW on
    •  karenjaninaz on

      I meant ng/ml. I am on prednisone for polymyocitis rheumatica and realize prednisone interferes with D3 absorption. I am taking around 10,000iu /day and testing frequently. My pulmonologist and I have the goal of maintaining ~ 70ng/ml to see if it helps my reactive airway disease. This level completely reversed a severe, long standing, case in a case report.

      Answered by  karenjaninaz on
    •  IAW on

      According to the internet prednisone may “deplete or interfere with the absorption and/ or function of vitamin D.” Maybe your levels at this point are only from the sunlamp??
      IF it is a question of “absorption”, then you could try the following.
      Use the sunlamp for longer periods of time and expose very large amounts of skin to it. (I don’t know if you are using it everyday and for how long.) People with absorption issues do to “gastric” problems, have very good luck using oral “sprays”. You can do the same thing with “drops” and spread them on the inside of your cheeks or under your tongue. Last but not least, you can open a capsule(s) of Vitamin D, mix with a little oil, and rub on your skin.
      By all means keep testing to make sure any of those are increasing levels!

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  IAW on

      You can try taking 20,000iu and see what happens but I don’t think that is going to work. As I said above maybe your levels are only from the “lamp” and you are not absorbing anything thru supplements. Better to try another method. Doctor could probably shorten the testing time to a week or two. Meaning if he tests in a week after trying a new method and your level has increased some, then you should keep doing that. It would take a full 8 weeks on any given amount to know what level you will end up at on that amount. He could double check at 4 weeks to make sure they have gone higher. (If at 4 weeks you happen to already be at 70, then you might have to decrease back.) Under “normal” circumstances if 5000iu gets you to 50, then adding 1000iu more to that and your levels should go to 60. So if you want 70-80, then that would be 7-8000iu. If you add the sunlamp into this then you may only need 4-5000iu to get to 70-80ng/ml.
      Let me know if you have any more questions!

      Answered by  IAW on
  •  SMAC195637008300 on

    Hello – I’m wondering if you’ve heard of higher blood levels of VitMin D being associated with increased output of urinary calcium? I’ve experienced an increase in urinary calcium as my VitMin D levels have increased. My blood calcium is fine (9.3 within an acceptable range of 8.5 – 10.1). Parathyroid, thyroid, and kidney tests are all normal. I’ve seen statements that higher levels of Vitamin D may reduce the need for calcium but I don’t know if these statements are based on research or, if true, that the excess calcium would wind up in the urine. My doctor has no answers for me. Thank you for any light you can shed on this!

    Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      What I do know is that Vitamin D helps calcium absorb from the intestinal tract. Dr. Cannell once said that he felt the high amounts of calcium that were being “prescribed” so to speak, were and are not necessary. For example 1000mg of calcium is not really necessary, more like the RDA or 500mg. Taking enough Vitamin D and not more calcium would correct the problem.
      So I found some interesting information at https://www.betterbones.com/osteoporosis/are-you-losing-too-much-calcium-in-your-urine/. (Granted they are talking about “excessive loss”.) They state “When there’s an unusually high consumption of calcium from diet and supplements, the body simply moves unneeded calcium from the body into urine to get rid of it.”
      This website also states “Excessive calcium loss in the urine can be due to factors like high intake of salt, caffeine, soda, or sugar, low levels of nutrients like magnesium, vitamin D, and vitamin K, and even prolonged stress.” “These factors all promote an acidic pH (which promotes calcium loss), and they’re all things you can begin correcting on your own.”
      I do know that most diets are low in magnesium and probably K. Vitamin K is what moves calcium to bone and not soft tissue.
      Hope this helps!

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      Thank you so much; this is very helpful! My magnesium levels are fine also. In fact, the only abnormal test is the urine calcium output (plus my creatinine output, which is tested at the same time and is following the same pattern as the calcium). I haven’t had my Vitamin K levels tested but I do know I take in more than enough through diet and supplementation. I just don’t know about absorption. Something I should probably check out…. My pH, as tested by urine strips, is generally alkaline. I’m caffeine-free, don’t drink sodas, rarely drink alcohol, eat mostly unprocessed foods, and avoid sugar like the plague. I also take boron, silica and other bone factors and wonder how these affect the need for calcium. Honestly, I question the “need” for the recommended levels of calcium intake once other nutrient, like Vitamin D, are present in adequate amounts. But, as I mentioned, my doctor had no answers. So thank you for this information!

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      SMAC you did not mention the first time around about the “creatinine level” being abnormal. If you are supplementing with calcium, this may explain a lot.
      In light of this new information this study may help at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4198086/. You can also look at https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Hypothesis+%E2%80%93+Optimize+vitamin+D+at+home+by+measuring+excess+Calcium+in+urine.
      I will also say this. Blood levels of any mineral only measure the 1-2% of what is in your blood stream and not total body stores. So you can have a deficit but be with in normal levels. So in light of this, maybe and experiment is in order. Take some supplemental magnesium and see if it changes those levels. (If you do this and it does, please come back and tell me!!)
      So I am not a doctor or scientist and do not want to give bad advise.If your kidney function is fine, that is good. I really don’t think there is an issue!

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      Thank you for this! I wasn’t a aware of the relationship between creatinine and calcium and mentioned the increased creatinine as an aside. It’s urinary – not serum – creatinine, though, that’s increased. I rechecked my numbers and found this: Feb. 2017 – (all within normal ranges except where the upper limit is shown) Vitamin D, 58; serum Ca, 10; serum creatinine, 0.8; urine Ca, 296 (upper limit of 250); urine creatinine, 313 (upper limit of 275). Sept. 2017 – Vitamin D, 66; serum Ca, 9.3; serum creatinine, 0.7; urine Ca, 341 (upper limit of 250); urine creatinine, 382 (upper limit of 275). So the serum creatinine and calcium dropped but the urinary output of both increased. I already take 376 mg. of magnesium in a supplement. Between supplementation and diet, my Ca intake is about 1200-1300 mgs and hadn’t changed between testing periods. I think I should redo the rest without Ca supplements. Thank you again for your response!

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      Yes SMAC I think that would be a good idea. Stop the calcium supplements and redo testing. Let me know what happens!

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      Hello again – While in the process of retesting my calcium, another issue has come up, something that has in fact caused me to stop all calcium supplements. In February of this year, my Vitamin D level was 58. By early May, it shot up to over 150. I was taking no more than 4000 IUs a day. (Currently I am off of all D supplements and food and my level is now around 114-117.) My calcium, parathyroid, and thyroid were tested and have been normal. Have you heard of Vitamin D levels increasing so much and so rapidly on such a relatively low level of Vitamin D supplementation? All the doctors I’ve seen are stumped.

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      I need to double check, are your D levels measured as ng/ml or nmol/l? It makes a big difference and could change my below conclusions!
      Is it summer where you live now and have you been spending time outdoors? This might be why.
      If not then go to the “search box” and type in “hypersensitivity” and click on “Vitamin D Hypersensitivity”. If you were to have one of the conditions listed there is does not mean you cannot take Vitamin D but you do have to be really careful that it does not cause hypercalcemia.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      The measurement is, and always has been, ngs/mL. It wasn’t summer when this happened. I live in the Pacific Northwest and during the months of March and April, I was primarily indoors. Thank you for the link; I will check that out. Do you happen to know the half-life of Vitamin D3? None of the doctors with whom I’ve spoken know and I’ve read conflicting information on the Internet. The link you’ve provided might answer this but do you know if hypersensitivity can happen even after taking Vitamin for years with no problem?

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      The other thing that I did not think about was to ask you if you have switched brands of Vitamin D. If you take Biotech there should not be a difference in “batches” because they are tested and verified. Anybody else’s Vitamin D is not necessarily tested. Basically supplements are not regulated and some have been found in studies not to correspond to what the label says it contains.
      Having said the above,originally I was told that the Vitamin D 1/2 life is about 2 weeks. Now someone just told me “3+”. Sorry I cannot due better than this. If I interpreted correctly, you have been off all Vitamin D for about two months and the recent level is 114-117 and started at over 150. Either way it should be “lower” than what it is by now. If it was a “brand” problem it still should have lowered further by now.
      You asked “do you know if hypersensitivity can happen even after taking Vitamin D for years with no problem?” In that article on hypersensitivity, for example, one thing that can cause this is “cat-scratch disease” which can be by cat or fleas. So yes, you could be fine, be bitten by a flea carrying it, and then all of a sudden have issues.
      When you first wrote back in September 2017, you talked about excess calcium in your urine but serum calcium was fine. I don’t think urine calcium tests are standard to get or are they being done for you because you have medical issues? If it’s a personal question and you do not want to answer, that is perfectly OK. Like you I am looking for the “why” the levels increased
      and wondered if there is a connection there.

      Answered by  IAW on
  •  SMAC195637008300 on

    I had been using the Biotech brand but also was taking a calcium supplement with some Vitamin D in it. The urine calcium test was part of a screening my doctor ordered for bone density. I’ll be getting that test done again soon as well as checking on the vitamin D level soon. I’m on a very low calcium diet right now so it will be interesting to see how the urine calcium might be affected. I read the information on hypersensitivity and thank you for all the good information. I was tested for some of the diseases listed but all tests came back okay. If anyone can figure this out on my end, I will let you know. Many thanks!

    Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
  •  IAW on

    You said “I’m on a very low calcium diet right now so it will be interesting to see how the urine calcium might be affected.” If you don’t mind I would also like to know what happens with the calcium test.

    Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      I don’t mind at all and will let you know.

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      The urine calcium level did drop. It dropped from 341 to 268 (the upper limit is 250). My Vitamin D was tested at the same time and is now 87 ngs. So perhaps I need even a little less calcium at that level of Vitamin D. My current calcium intake is 600-700 mgs per day from food only. When my calcium intake was 1200-1300 mgs per day and my Vitamin D level was 66, that’s when the urine calcium output was 341. All other tests (parathyroid, serum calcium, serum magnesium, kidney tests) were normal.

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      Well I am glad the Vitamin D level is back to “reasonable”.
      You seem to have proven Dr. Cannell’s theory that if everyone just takes enough Vitamin D, then they do not need to take high amounts of calcium supplements. It would also seem to me that if your intake by diet is more than you need, then the body does what it is suppose to do and get rid of the unneeded amount. Can I assume the doctor is happy with the urine calcium level of 268?
      Have you (and/or doctor) decided what you will now do since your D levels have come down? For instance are you waiting till they are down to 50ng/ml or some other number before starting Vitamin d again? If so, how much are you going to take? Is there a “plan”?

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      The doctor didn’t say anything about the urine calcium so I too am assuming it’s okay. The doctor asked that I stay off all Vitamin D supplements for four months and then retest. Personally, I think that might be too long to wait. I don’t know how much over 150 ngs my level was, but without supplementation and with restricted sun exposure, the level dropped to about 114-117 in a little over a month and then to 87 a few weeks after that. So I likely will get the level tested sooner and see how the urine calcium level is affected also. My goal has been to have my Vitamin D level between 50-60 ngs, which is where it was in February of this year. What I don’t know (and neither do any of the five doctors to whom I was sent) is how much I need to supplement to stay at that level. Back in February and until I tested high in May, I was taking no more than 4000 IUs a day. One doctor suggested maybe I need only 2000 IUs a day, but it was just a guess on his part.

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      In about 2-3 weeks time, it dropped 27 points. So if that happened again you would be at 60 in another 2-3 weeks.
      Something I never asked before, sorry, was did you start “any” new medications before your D levels went high? For example “Statins” can increase D levels.

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      Exactly! That’s why I plan to test my levels sooner. As you described, my levels should drop to my “ideal” in less than a month. I haven’t been put on any new medication. I did have a medical procedure between February and May for which I had to be sedated for about 10 minutes, but that’s it.

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      I researched again this morning and the only two medications I could find that would “raise” levels are statins and thiazide diuretics(maybe). It does not mean science may discover other things later especially as more people take Vitamin D and have their levels followed.
      The only thing I can suggest at this point, is to start back on a lower amount of D and see what happens. It means you may have to follow your levels more often for the time being. If it was some kind of crazy “fluke” or had to do with the “sedation”, then at some point you may find yourself taking the same amount as you started with. By all means come back and tell me if this happens!

      Answered by  IAW on
    •  SMAC195637008300 on

      I certainly will! Thanks for your research and all your input – much appreciated!

      Answered by  SMAC195637008300 on
    •  IAW on

      Your welcome!
      May you be happy and healthy!

      Answered by  IAW on

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