Asked by Mona on April 2, 2019
You are correct with a Vitamin D level below 10ng/ml, it is highly likely you have Osteomalacia.
Since you took the 100,000iu on March 26th, I counted 8 days and that averages 12,500iu a day. We recommend treating a deficiency by taking 8000-10,000 iu A DAY for 8 weeks and then retesting. It is far better to take a smaller amount daily rather than large dosing. Large dosing can cause the Vitamin D system to dis-regulate. I would stick to 10,000iu a day for 8 weeks. I have also seen several people take huge bolus doses and then that decreased mineral levels so much that they then had symptoms from that.
It will do you no good really to test mineral levels. This is because blood tests for any mineral only measures the 1-2% in your blood stream and not total body stores. You can still be deficient but be “in” range and still have symptoms of the deficiency.
You said “I should receive these 2 items by this weekend.” I hope both of these amounts can be broken down into smaller daily amounts.
If you haven’t already please read http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-and-other-vitamins-and-minerals/. It is very important! You may just want to take some supplemental magnesium and calcium for the 8 weeks and the K2 is very important.
In 8 weeks time your level when you retest should be at 80ng/ml orprobably higher since you do not weigh very much. If it is not anywhere near that level, come back and tell me. This would mean something is wrong if your levels have not recovered by then. IF your level is “high” AND you feel better you can then take a maintenance dosage of a minimum 4000iu. We usually recommend people weighing 150lbs take 5000iu but you weigh a lot less. If you take the 5000iu daily your level will be above 50ng/ml which is the minimum level we recommend. Having a higher level will not hurt you.
If you have any other questions, just ask!
Thank you so much for your quick response – much appreciated.
Just to let you know that I can regulate the amount of the vitamin D, as it comes in liquid form – 1 drop = 5,000iu – so I could take 2 drops each day. The K2 is 600mcg per capsule, so I can’t break that down, other than take 1 every other day, or even every third day, if you think that 1 per day might be too much per 10,000iu.(I’m not sure really).
Thank you for all this information – it has been extremely helpful. I will look into the Magnesium and start taking a dose of that also. What do you think the ideal dosage of that would be in relation to the dosage that I would be on for the D3 and K2 – or does that not matter as such?
The co-factors for Vitamin D3 are not based on how much D3 you take. For the most part they are based on the governments RDA. For example the RDA for Vitamin K is 90mcg a day for women. So unless a study comes out that proves more is necessary, will that change. Even then it sometimes unfortunately does not change the RDA amount. An example of that is magnesium. In the link I gave above, it says there are studies that show the RDA “may” be too low. So maybe you should take the K2 every 3rd or 4th day.
Everybody should look at their diet and decide if they need supplements and how much. For people like you, with a level that low, especially if they have Osteomalacia symptoms, you may want to at least take some supplements for 8 weeks at least. If your intake of magnesium is not high enough, Vitamin D will probably give you symptoms. Magnesium is also needed for bone growth. How much to take is a guess on my part. Maybe 200-300mg. If you take too much and your body does not need it, you will most likely get loose bowels. If you get adequate calcium in your diet then maybe around 500mg for the 8 weeks and then stop. High amount of calcium are not necessary if you have enough in your diet AND have adequate levels of Vitamin D.
Hope this helps!
Hello again IAW
I have been retested after 2 months.
I started on April 8th and did a retest on June 5th. My Vitamin D level results are now at 101ng/mL.
I have been taking Vitamin D (15,000iu daily) along with K2 (600mcg every 2nd day), Calcium (500mg daily) and some Magnesium (I’ve tried several different forms of magnesium – tablets were huge, so tried them crushed but couldn’t handle that either – then tried it in liquid form, which was better) – so it’s been on/off with the magnesium.
My back feels much better and I can sit and stand up now without all the pain. My knees are still a problem though.
Over the past few weeks I have also had the following examinations:- MRI of my knees (because they are still very weak and cause me pain so unable to stand/walk normally for any length of time. The results showed that I have degenerative changes in the medial meniscus but no tear. The cartilage under my knees has worn out quite badly.
I’ve had x-rays of my back – result = I have a compressed disc at lower end of spine and not so good at the top end of my spine.
I’ve had a bone density test – result = I may have osteopenia (it’s in French so I don’t understand the report fully – I’m seeing my new GP next week to find out what the results mean).
So based on the dosage I’ve been on for the past 8 weeks and what my levels are now – what would you recommend I take for my maintenance dose of Vitamin D? At the moment I am still taking the dosage as I’ve mentioned above – but I need to reduce it now to how much?
I look forward to hearing from you.
I am glad you feel better but sorry we could not fix everything!
I am “surprised” that at a weight of only 81lbs and taking 15,000iu a day, that your level was not “a lot” higher than 101ng/ml.
Normally I would say taking 5000iu a day should be enough for a maintenance dosage BUT it does not look that way when you look at “your” figures. My first guess would be if you take half the amount you were taking, 7000iu, your level should go down to around 50ng/ml. Another way to look at this is the following. A “general rule of thumb”, is for every 10ng/ml you want to lower or increase your level, take 1000iu less or more. “Healthy” is 50ng/ml. So if I do that and work back from 101ng/ml, that would mean you should take 10,000iu.
Maybe you are still trying to repair some “bone” and that is why the levels are not working out like they should. (This is a guess on my part.)
So now we have to “guess”. You could take 10,000iu for 8 weeks and retest. If your level is right around 50ng/ml, then you need to keep taking the 10K. If after 8 weeks your level is 70ng/ml, then you could take 7-8000iu. If you want to try taking 7-8000iu for the next 8 weeks, you can do that. I “highly” recommend that you get retested at that time to make sure you levels are not falling below 50ng/ml.
If it turns out that the above is true and you need to take higher amounts, the thing I do not know is for how long you might have to take the higher amounts for.
So I would suggest testing every 4-6 months and if all of a sudden your level increases a lot, then I guess your body finally “repaired” what it needed to and does not need the “extra”.
I hope I explained that well enough but if you have more questions, just ask!
Thank you for your quick response.
It’s thanks to you that I have made such a recovery so far – you’re a God send.
And thank you so much for the detailed explanation, it’s very helpful.
I’ve started taking the 10,000iu daily and will retest after 8 weeks. I will let you know what the results are.
I am still looking for a magnesium in liquid form that’s not a silly price.
Since 2012 I’ve been struggling with frequent headaches and living with a sore tongue (amongst other ailments).
But since starting on the Vitamin D, my tongue got back to normal immediately, I still can’t believe it!!
Since 2015 I have this sound in both my ears and I’m very sensitive to certain sounds (I have Hyperacusis & Tinnitus) – and I thought that perhaps this was causing my frequent headaches – anyway I started to log down my hours of listening to pink noise and I thought to make a record of my headaches also. Some months I could take anything up to 30-40 tablets per month. But that has dropped down now and I am guessing that’s because of the vitamin D that I’m taking now. In April I’ve only taken 6 and in May it was 14.
So this is also another reason why I would also like to add Magnesium supplement because I read that Magnesium Citrate could help with headaches, fatigue, memory etc.
I’m not sure if this has been proven or not – but it would be a bonus for me if it helped towards the headaches and memory.
I’ve never taken supplements of any kind before, but it looks like I’m going to have to rely on a few essential ones now – because I don’t have a very big appetite and so I believe I can’t get enough nutrients from my daily food intake (it’s very poor compared to the average person – I just don’t get hungry!). So I’ve been looking into Vitamin A, C & E combined, hoping it would help me along.
Thank you so much again for your time and help. I’m looking forward to the next retest after 8 weeks.
Yes, please let me know what happens in 8 weeks!
As for the magnesium, I guess you do not like to swallow pills. What happens when they are “crushed”? Does it taste bad even if you mix it in something?
I am not sure if this will be better but there is such a thing as “magnesium oil”. You rub it on your skin, and it absorbs that way. People say it does work and will increase levels. You may even be able to make your own but you will have to “google”. You might be able to make more progress, if you can increase those levels.
I am glad we could make you feel better!
Thank you – I will look into the oil. And yes, I’ve tried crushing them into powder and mixing it in with some yoghurt for example, but it’s just so drying, I gave up with that. I will definitely look into the oil – thank you again.
I hope that you are well and enjoying the summer weather.
I have received my results today after having a retest (at 8weeks) on August 3rd.
The results are exactly the same – 101ng/mL (253nmol/L). (I was surprised really, because during the past couple of weeks I haven’t been feeling as good and I have been having pains in different areas, and I thought perhaps that my vitamin D levels might have dropped.)
I started taking 10,000iu on June 9th – (along with the K2 600mcg every other day).
I also take Magnesium 100mg – Calcium 500mg.
When I had the bone density done – the results showed that I have osteopenia – so I need to do something to not let that progress further.
It’s been just under 7 months now since I had the operation on my feet – so I have had an x-ray done to see how it was progressing and to make sure that everything was healing as it should, because I have been feeling some pain in my right foot around the toe area and only a little on the left foot.
My surgeon viewed the x-rays and was happy with the progress/healing. The short report along with the x-rays say that there is “global bone demineralization” – I’m not sure what that means exactly. I haven’t had a reply from my surgeon in Germany with regards to this to explain to me what it means.
Bearing in mind that my feet are still healing (and it’s going to take some time, a minimum of 1 year for the fractures to heal, perhaps a little longer for both of my feet!) and that I also have Osteopenia, I thought that I would increase my dose of magnesium and calcium. So from Monday August 5th I have increased my intake of magnesium to 200mg and my Calcium to 1000mg, because I don’t think I’m getting enough from my daily food. (Do you think that will be okay?, considering I still have a long way to go with my feet and that I have Osteopenia.)? And also during the past couple of weeks the pain in my right arm (around the elbows) has increased. My left arm is not as bad as the right arm at the moment. Even lifting a mug of tea or water gives me pain in my arm – I have to use both hands for support, my arms are not strong enough to carry anything slightly heavy, it’s really frustrating.
Oh, and my sore tongue returned! Luckily it didn’t hang around for so long this time (it was on July 11th and disappeared after a few days).
Do you think I should stick with my current dosage for the time being?
I look forward to hearing from you.
If I have not said this before, I am not a doctor and there is only so much I can do or suggest.
I am also VERY surprised that your level did not change. I don’t know how you receive the information on your D levels but is there a chance that they gave you the wrong level and repeated the old level to you from June?
If the D level is correct, then I can only assume you are not using up as much Vitamin D which could be a good sign.
I have no idea if you should decrease your D dosage or not particularly since you said in the last week or two you haven’t been feeling as well. You could ignore your levels at the moment and take an extra 2-3000iu (total 12-13K) and see if it makes you feel better or even worse or stay the same. You might have to give this at least a week to make a determination. Some Vitamin D is used immediately, so relief could be same day or some has to go thru your liver and therefore could take longer, maybe a week, to see results. If things stay the same there is no need to take the “extra”. IF things get worse, then maybe the issue is now too much Vitamin D and then we do need to decrease amount. If it makes you feel better, that will be good. If at some point you want to decrease the amount taken, I would do it slowly. For instance go from 10K to 8K for 8 weeks. If things do not get any worse, then try 6K but do not go any lower than 5,000iu per day.
I can not promise that any amount of D will correct the Osteopenia. Same goes for increasing the calcium or magnesium. But if you are not getting enough of them, than that will not help either. I would not go beyond 1000on the calcium and if you take too much magnesium it will give you “loose bowels”. Then you just need to cut back on the amount taken. So you can take more than 200 but just be aware of what can happen.
Has anyone ever tested your B12 levels recently? Has anyone ever tested your thyroid levels at all or recently? If you have any of that actual information, please let me know.
Thank you for the quick response – and thank you so much for all your help and advice.
I have been trying to decide which way to go with this because I really wonder about the results.
Anyway, I have some 2ml vials of 100,000iu which I am going to break down and calculate the number of iu per drop.
Once I have done this, then I will be able to take smaller increments, because my current D3 is 5,000 iu per drop.
I have looked at my previous blood test results – and I have been tested for both vitamin B12 and thyroid levels.
For the thyroid – tested on Dec. 12 2018, it says: T.S.H. ultra-sensible …. 1,345 mUI/L.
Tested again for thyroid on June 4 2019 ….. 0,833mUI/L.
For the B12 – tested on March 19 2019 …. 226,0 pg/mL.
No-one has told me if the above results are good, okay, or bad.
Thank you again for your time and support.
Mona what country do you live in?
In some countries but not the USA, the low end of the B12 level “starts” at 500-550. This is the starting point they feel is acceptable. You are well below this. This level was taken before D treatment and there is also a connection between low Vitamin D and low B12. Maybe someone should test again?
As for the Dec 2018 TSH, I think you meant 1.345 not a comma but a “point”. Therefore June 4th is probably 0.8? The December one is a more “reasonable” (normal) level than the 0.8. Yes, the 0.8 is “within range”. I would get someone to test again in a month or two and make sure you are not seeing a “downward trend”. This could mean you have hyperthyroidism and someone should test your thyroid antibody levels or make them test you now. Graves can cause Osteoporosis and low B12.
I know you are not very tall but is your weight “normal” for you or have you lost weight without any reason?
I live in France.
You are right, it should be a point, I should have corrected that (in France commas and periods are reversed in their use).
For the B12 values indicated on the sheet it says 180-914.
As for my weight, I have never weighed a lot since childhood, it usually fluctuates depending – at the moment I am around 85lbs.
I don’t know what Graves is.?
My GP thinks that the vitamin D results are correct and suggests that I retest in 3 months. Can the test for thyroid antibody levels wait for 3 months or should I have that done sooner?
Thank you again for all your help.
Grave’s Disease is a disease caused by antibodies against your thyroid. It would also be called hyperthyroidism. In layman’s terms it “speeds up” your system unlike “hypo”thyroidism that slows your system. Both cause health issues.
Hyperthyroidism can speed up bone turnover and cause Osteoporosis. It can cause weight loss and that is why I asked about your weight. It can cause B12 levels to go low. The problem will be that if your doctor ONLY does the TSH test, at this moment it is not concerning because it is not “out of range”. Because I have a lot of knowledge on thyroid issues because of my own health issues, I know that .8 is going to the lower side which is where your level would go if you have hyperthyroidism. In the USA the low end of the TSH range is 0.4. Before your thyroid TSH level goes low enough to warrant concern by the doctor, you may already have high antibody levels causing health issues. I am really unsure if you are hyper and therefore just wanted to make sure you knew about this and how it could have been missed on testing. It is up to you whether or not you want to test and if you want to wait three months.
Having been diagnosed with Osteopenia, a doctor should be making sure that there is no “underlying” disease or condition causing this. I know we would all like to rely on doctors to know what they are doing and make correct diagnosis and run enough tests, but it does not always happen. So I would be asking the doctor or looking at test results to see what he has tested for and then “googling” causes of Osteopenia/Osteoporosis and making sure they have tested for everything.
As for the B12. Again with Vitamin D treatment, that level may have changed and might be higher. Obviously other countries do not agree with France on what the range “should be”. (I myself found this out through research.) So I was pointing that out to you because low B12 can cause issues too. There seems to be a connection with low B12 and Osteoporosis and they are also connected to low D.
Thank you so much for all the information – I had no idea.
I went to my GP requesting for a small blood count test to be done because that is what the surgeon required before going ahead with the operation on my feet. So I did not specifically ask for the thyroid test, it was part of a routine check done at that time.
When I changed my GP, I had raised several issues I was having at the time, so she must have included it in the list as part of a routine check when I had to go for a retest for vit. D.
When I went for a consultation on receiving my results, she only pointed out from the list my Hemoglobin levels of 11.8 g/dL – for the reference values it says 12.0 to 16.0.
Nothing else was mentioned about anything else though.
When I was doing my research for the magnesium, I came across some other supplements, which I then looked into and thought that they might be beneficial to me.
I have included a Super B complex, and a vitamin A,C,E with Selenium. I ordered a liquid B-12 energizer but I haven’t been taking it regularly. I was unaware of the connection and the importance of it, as you have just mentioned.
I am always turning to the internet for information but sometimes when I type my symptoms, it turns out that I have everything wrong with me (I am a dead person walking😊) – so I’m always unsure what is actually wrong.
My GP’s response to having Osteopenia was that my only course of action was to take Calcium supplements.
Words cannot express how grateful I am for all your help.
If you need anything else, I will try and help.
https://jeanhailes.org.au/health-a-z/bone-health/causes-of-osteoporosis-osteopenia has a list of causes.
Can someone help me
Vitamin D, 1,25 (OH) 2
18 – 72 pg/mL
Vitamin D3, 1,25 (OH) 2
Vitamin D2, 1,25 (OH) 2
A 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OHD) and 1.25-dihydroxyvitamin D (1.25-(OHD)2D) are two very different tests. If you are trying to measure Vitamin D then you need to take the 25-OHD test.
Vitamin D (25 OHD)tests are either measured as ng/ml OR nmol/l and not pg/ml.
It appears someone did the wrong test when trying to check you Vitamin D levels.
I can say though, that 1.25 OHD levels will go “high” if D3 levels (25OHD) are “LOW”.
You need to get the 25 OHD test done because it appears those levels are most likely very low.
Sorry we are still having a language barrier. Let me rephrase. You already took 25,000iu for 60 days and your new level is 66ng/ml? If this is correct continue to take the 25,000iu or if you want you…
Posted by IAW | 6 hours, 48 minutes ago
Yes, I take 25,000iu per day for 60 days and RIGHT after that I start taking 150,000iu per month (because I cannot check my D-level before I start taking supplements, and I be afraid of possible ove…
Posted by Luminous123 | 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
We at the VDC promote taking a minimum of 5000 iu a day. That will get most people to a blood level of 50 ng/ml. But you will not know if that is the case unless you test your levels. So no 2000 iu i…
Posted by IAW | 4 years, 8 months ago
I do not know if you will come back to read this. If you figure this all out at some point, I would appreciate if you came back and told me what happened. For example if you use a lower amount of Vit…
Posted by IAW | 3 years, 9 months ago